Job

[Tom Tighe]

My version of NKJV states in a footnote that the Behemoth could represent an elephant or purely mythical monster, but more likely a hippopotamus and another footnote suggests that Leviathan is a crocodile. Both make sense since both existed in Egypt and people in ancient times would have been familiar with them, but I just found out the hippo has been extinct in Egypt since the early 19th century due to human expansion and hunting. Both chapters of Job about Behemoth and Leviathan, 40 and 41, start with descriptions of these known formidable animals, but later on the descriptions escalate to describe something more akin to fire-breathing dragons as symbols of existential chaos, evil, and destruction, possibly representing chaos at the beginning of creation and satan/evil forces at the end of time. On the website I checked regarding hippos in ancient Egypt, it states. that "the hippopotamus symbolized the chaotic forces of the natural world, as well as the primordial waters from which life emerged which fits the descriptive poetry in Job.

In my Bible version, whenever Job's friends state that obviously God must have brought punishment down on him for some hidden, unconfessed sin, a footnote states, among other things, that the friends don't know that it wasn't God, but satan who imposed the pain and hardship on Job. I find myself arguing with that a bit since it was God, after all, who allowed satan to impose the evil conditions on Job. I suspect th, although God doesn't cause evil, He not only allows it to happen for unknown reasons, but is also not answerable to us to explain why. This is far less comforting to our human understanding, but maybe it's a more open and honest assessment. Any thoughts?
Thanks.

Blessings in Christ...
Marina

[Tom Tighe]

Marina,
I have seen those notes and those are certainly the most likely modern day animals to fit the Behemoth and Leviathan description. However, if you aren't trying to squeeze those descriptions into a modern animal, I don't think they are what I would come up with. It's interesting to me that God talks about these in context of His creations without mention of a timeline so we don't know if they were even familiar to Job. Also, Pastor Mueke shared some interesting notes from Marco Polo's journal that seemed to document a more dinosaur like creature in the 1200s. It's not critical to the story, but fun to think about.

On your second point, I hope someone smarter than me will chime in. I think God gave satan dominion over the earth...for a while. Satan's goal is to separate us from God and injustice is an easy way to do that. Listen for the echos of Job’s friends in modern discussions of natural disasters, plagues, and famine. I think the main point of Job is that God is just in all He does, even if it sometimes seems to be against us. God never gives satan complete authority over Job and despite God's kind of grumpy dialog Job is proven righteous in the end

[DWMuecke]

Leviathan and Behemoth are very unlikely to be either a hippopotamus or an elephant. Neither an elephant's or a hippopotamus' tail would be compared to a cedar. While both each grass, it seems more likely that these were beasts that were significantly bigger than either an elephant or hippopotamus. We know that many large animals have become extinct over the course of history, so, most likely, leviathan and behemoth.

God does not cause evil and is not the source of evil. Yes, He does allow evil to exist and allows Satan to "do his thing" within limits. Notice, that God limits what Satan can do to Job when Satan asks to be bring Job down from his blessed position. Satan is described as the ruler of the earth, at least until Christ's second coming. That does not mean he has unlimited power. We error when we try to equate specific happenings with specific or even general sins. I'm certain we will hear from some that the current California wildfires are God's retribution for the many sins of the entertainment industry. But there is now way that we can actually make that statement based on real knowledge. The same is true here. Satan chose Job as his target because Job was the most righteous of men on earth at the time. Satan always attacks those who believe in God because he wants to bring as many people to hell as possible. Those who do not believe are already going to hell, so Satan doesn't bother with them.

[Tom Tighe]

A triggering book! When you've suffered in life, Job is a personal thorn in the side and a reminder of God waging a bet (the politically correct word is a "test") with haSatan against an innocent man, his family and livestock. There is NO WAY AROUND IT!!! Just like the bush burning w/ fire yet is not consumed. In my world, that is a picture of haSatan NOT being consumed. The unconsuming fire that we wait to SOMEDAY be consuming. Until then, Adonai is "with us" but not to estinguish that dang fire in the bush! He let's that fire live. Either way, this book is a grim reminder of how God is no magic gene white boy hippy. Notice Job being tortured and having his life "restored" was while he was still on earth? Think of the ppl who never get things restored on earth and have been tortured only to live in loss until their death. God uses haSatan for His work. Think nice and long on that FACT. This book makes one come to grip with any hatred we may have against"the devils work"... is it all "the Devil"?
We don't know what we don't know. Know-it-all's beware!

[Tom Tighe]

Hi Jules,
I have to admit I've never thought of God as a 'magic gene white boy hippy.' I do agree that we don't know what we don't know. That includes God's big plan and strategy for dealing with satan (God makes that pretty clear in His dialogue toward the end of the book). I do believe the lesson of Job is not that God allowed the devil to torment Job, but that Job's unwavering faith tormented the devil. Job suffered dearly, but won. satan lost. God is in control and His plan is in action. He is sovereign. He is just. He did not create us just for us to suffer and die. The introduction of sin makes the world a more treacherous place and we face obstacles and challenges beyond our control as we navigate our way through our life in it. “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life" (Gen 3:17). But (John 3:17), "God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." I am on team 'Hippy Boy.'

[Tom Tighe]

Continuing with the "things aren't what they seem" theme, who else do we know who didn't do anything wrong, yet suffered in the Father's plan, and was the target of satan? On the outside it sounds like the cruel $! bet between the "Dukes" to play God with poor Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackroyd. But Job got to model Jesus through his profound loss. Was not his entire complaint "Why have You forsaken me?" And at the last, could he not say, "You have heard me?" Same with Abraham. On the outside, what kind of deity would demand Abraham to sacrifice his only begotten son? Yet Abraham became the friend of God, because in obeying His command, he learned the Father's secret. I'm not trying to minimize anyone's suffering, I'm only saying that's where we always seem to find Him.