Greetings Bible Adventurists,
It is easy to get confused with all the prophecies about Babylon that seem to alternate between whether it is a tool of God to discipline Judah or is about to be smited (smote?). The answer is yes! Let’s look at the timing a little more carefully.
Nebuchadnezzar became prominent in 605 BC when he defeated Egypt. Since he was in the neighborhood, he stopped into Jerusalem (vassal state of Egypt) to reaffirm his victory and took the prominent leaders (the cream of the crop) to Babylon to ensure his control over the region. This is the first Babylonian exile and is when Daniel was taken. Jehoiakim (put in place by Pharoah Necho) served Nebuchadnezzar for 3 years, then rebelled but remained king for another 4 years or so until he died (958 BC) and his son Jehoiachin replaced him. Unfortunately for unfaithful Jehoiachin, the Babylonians had already had enough of the rebellion and were on their way back.
Nebuchadnezzar returned in 597 BC (8 years since first exile) and placed Zedekiah as king in hopes of better control. At this time, he took the majority of the productive people of Judah (the milk of the crop?). This is the second Babylonian exile and when Ezekiel was taken.
Zedekiah was king over those that Nebuchadnezzar found unworthy to take (the skim milk of the crop?) for about 11 years until 586 BC. Nebuchadnezzar tired of Zedekiah’s noncompliance and returned to destroy the city and take or scatter all those people that remained. This is the third Babylonian exile. Jeremiah stayed in Jerusalem for this entire period.
During this time the prophets continued to give God’s warning to those in Jerusalem to repent or be exiled. For those already in exile, the prophets delivered God’s message of hope that they (or their children) would return and that Babylon would fall.
I hope that helps to keep things straight. Thanks for joining me on the adventure, I’m really glad you are here.
Tom
14 Aug Nebuchadnezzar
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Tom Tighe
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:27 pm
JR's comment
Ugg, the lessons of God. How much of this truly applies to me today? A conviction and correction by way of satans (adversaries) is possible but constantly? I say no.
The Most High definitely uses the satans of this world to "correct/discipline us" but as someone who has had a whole lot of "correction/discipline" in my life, there comes a time where I have reached a limit. There comes a time when we wonder if that kind of thinking about "God" is accurate. How long are we supposed to blame ourselves, exactly? How long do we deserve the wickedness against us?
I'm not interested in a father who over-corrects CONSTANTLY b/c of my wrong doings and errors prone to the flesh, of which I am apparently born into according to Catholic based Christianity. At some point ppl have to realize that many are left here to fend for ourselves on this earth amongst evil and not b/c "God" doesn't care about us. God can move to protect people today, yes, but He doesn't have to nor does He promise us no abuse or mild abuses. Evil wins many times.
If you are priveledged to not have been violated, cursed or face some awful lifetime of bad, it isnt b/c you're more righteous and favored. It's simply b/c you're privileged to have had humans in your life to protect you. God has no promises to rescue us until we are dead. D E A D! Proclaiming the name of "Jesus" doesn't stop the demons for all of us all of the time. Yelling "Jesus" doesnt stop stalking, rape or murder for most of us but a firearm sure the heck does! Common sense in this wicked world goes a long way. We need human kindness; REAL sacrifice and courage to stand up for the beaten down people, that is how we see and feel Messiah in this wicked world.
P.S. I am very much NOT a Calvinst; most survivors of the wickedness forced upon us reject such an asinine doctrine. Children aren't raped and murdered b/c God chose not to protect them; It is b/c human beings did not protect them.
Keepn it real and raw.
The Most High definitely uses the satans of this world to "correct/discipline us" but as someone who has had a whole lot of "correction/discipline" in my life, there comes a time where I have reached a limit. There comes a time when we wonder if that kind of thinking about "God" is accurate. How long are we supposed to blame ourselves, exactly? How long do we deserve the wickedness against us?
I'm not interested in a father who over-corrects CONSTANTLY b/c of my wrong doings and errors prone to the flesh, of which I am apparently born into according to Catholic based Christianity. At some point ppl have to realize that many are left here to fend for ourselves on this earth amongst evil and not b/c "God" doesn't care about us. God can move to protect people today, yes, but He doesn't have to nor does He promise us no abuse or mild abuses. Evil wins many times.
If you are priveledged to not have been violated, cursed or face some awful lifetime of bad, it isnt b/c you're more righteous and favored. It's simply b/c you're privileged to have had humans in your life to protect you. God has no promises to rescue us until we are dead. D E A D! Proclaiming the name of "Jesus" doesn't stop the demons for all of us all of the time. Yelling "Jesus" doesnt stop stalking, rape or murder for most of us but a firearm sure the heck does! Common sense in this wicked world goes a long way. We need human kindness; REAL sacrifice and courage to stand up for the beaten down people, that is how we see and feel Messiah in this wicked world.
P.S. I am very much NOT a Calvinst; most survivors of the wickedness forced upon us reject such an asinine doctrine. Children aren't raped and murdered b/c God chose not to protect them; It is b/c human beings did not protect them.
Keepn it real and raw.
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Tom Tighe
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:27 pm
Marina's comment
Hello JR (All),
God never changes, so what applied back then still applies today, and when we forget or ignore this, itputs us at risk. Adversity can be the result of the trajectory of our thoughts and actions. Some call this "karma," but it's no more and no less than what is stated by Paul in Galatians 6:7: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." I see this as a universal spiritual law instituted by God for our instruction and purification, therefore impersonal in a sense. What we dwell on spiritually, mentally, and physically, tends to multiply and what we neglect will diminish. People who experience a load of abuse, especially early in life, are at an obvious disadvantage unless they have been able to forgive themselves and others, and whereas it is instructive to examine our own lives to see where we might not have trusted God, or how we might have attracted adversity, it should never lead to self-judgment or blame, only repentance and re-dedication to Jesus. As for others, we can't judge them at all because we don't know the state of their inner spiritual life and everything about their past. Besides, there are truths we can't even begin to fathom. As Jesus stated about the man born blind in John chapter 9, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."
The comfort is that the more we call on and yell "Jesus" from the heart, the more He will be our Rock and Refuge! Please yell more often. He never stops caring about YOU, me, everyone. Ultimately, evil cannot and will not win—only Jesus, and believers in Him, will be the victors!
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
Peace in Christ...and have a good night...
Marina
God never changes, so what applied back then still applies today, and when we forget or ignore this, itputs us at risk. Adversity can be the result of the trajectory of our thoughts and actions. Some call this "karma," but it's no more and no less than what is stated by Paul in Galatians 6:7: "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap." I see this as a universal spiritual law instituted by God for our instruction and purification, therefore impersonal in a sense. What we dwell on spiritually, mentally, and physically, tends to multiply and what we neglect will diminish. People who experience a load of abuse, especially early in life, are at an obvious disadvantage unless they have been able to forgive themselves and others, and whereas it is instructive to examine our own lives to see where we might not have trusted God, or how we might have attracted adversity, it should never lead to self-judgment or blame, only repentance and re-dedication to Jesus. As for others, we can't judge them at all because we don't know the state of their inner spiritual life and everything about their past. Besides, there are truths we can't even begin to fathom. As Jesus stated about the man born blind in John chapter 9, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."
The comfort is that the more we call on and yell "Jesus" from the heart, the more He will be our Rock and Refuge! Please yell more often. He never stops caring about YOU, me, everyone. Ultimately, evil cannot and will not win—only Jesus, and believers in Him, will be the victors!
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
Peace in Christ...and have a good night...
Marina
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Tom Tighe
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:27 pm
Tom's comment
JR,
That's a lot to get from a general timeline of Nebuchadnezzar's interactions with Judah. Thanks to Marina for her insights. This is a better discussion for the web page than the email chain, so I will move these comments there if you (or anyone else) would like to continue.
I agree that God does not constantly convict/correct us with adversaries (satans) or adversities. In fact, I would say that is very rare. I would also say it's a stretch to analogize personal tribulations with the Babylonian exile. The period of the kings of Judah is about 500 years. Only Saul, David, and Solomon were anointed by prophets (God), the rest were selected by man, Game of Thrones style. Of those three, Saul totally failed. David (as Pastor Colageo points out) broke all 10 commandments in 1 week. Solomon reintroduced all the abominable pagan influences and practices that the Israelites were to have eliminated 400 years earlier. This caused the kingdom to divide and led Judah to a string of 20 leaders of whom only 4 did mostly what was right in God's eyes, although none of them were able to remove the pagan influences (or high places) Solomon reintroduced. Israel never came close to returning to God. The culture of Judah (and all the tribes of Israel) had rejected God and vigorously embraced demonic paganism. The kings were leading the people by the example of burning their own kids to Molech in the Valley of Hinnom.
You see, the purpose of Babylonian exile was not to punish the people, it was to give them a chance. It was a 70 year "time out" to reevaluate their culture and their relationship with God so they could start fresh. That is the promise of the prophets. “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment..."
Now, to your second point. Yes, direct overt supernatural intervention in our daily lives is uncommon. We are called to take care and protect other people. We find all kinds of stumbling blocks in our lives. Many of those are because our plans don't align with God's. Many are because there is true evil in our world. God gave us a few simple rules to make our lives easier and more enjoyable, yet we often ignore or even rebel against these. I think the real privilege you speak of is our free will choice to do good (which usually means follow God's simple rules). We always have that choice. It sometimes seems easier not to choose 'good', but that usually ends up being short sighted. Sometimes it takes courage or sacrifice, but that is what we are commanded to do. "...And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Tom
That's a lot to get from a general timeline of Nebuchadnezzar's interactions with Judah. Thanks to Marina for her insights. This is a better discussion for the web page than the email chain, so I will move these comments there if you (or anyone else) would like to continue.
I agree that God does not constantly convict/correct us with adversaries (satans) or adversities. In fact, I would say that is very rare. I would also say it's a stretch to analogize personal tribulations with the Babylonian exile. The period of the kings of Judah is about 500 years. Only Saul, David, and Solomon were anointed by prophets (God), the rest were selected by man, Game of Thrones style. Of those three, Saul totally failed. David (as Pastor Colageo points out) broke all 10 commandments in 1 week. Solomon reintroduced all the abominable pagan influences and practices that the Israelites were to have eliminated 400 years earlier. This caused the kingdom to divide and led Judah to a string of 20 leaders of whom only 4 did mostly what was right in God's eyes, although none of them were able to remove the pagan influences (or high places) Solomon reintroduced. Israel never came close to returning to God. The culture of Judah (and all the tribes of Israel) had rejected God and vigorously embraced demonic paganism. The kings were leading the people by the example of burning their own kids to Molech in the Valley of Hinnom.
You see, the purpose of Babylonian exile was not to punish the people, it was to give them a chance. It was a 70 year "time out" to reevaluate their culture and their relationship with God so they could start fresh. That is the promise of the prophets. “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment..."
Now, to your second point. Yes, direct overt supernatural intervention in our daily lives is uncommon. We are called to take care and protect other people. We find all kinds of stumbling blocks in our lives. Many of those are because our plans don't align with God's. Many are because there is true evil in our world. God gave us a few simple rules to make our lives easier and more enjoyable, yet we often ignore or even rebel against these. I think the real privilege you speak of is our free will choice to do good (which usually means follow God's simple rules). We always have that choice. It sometimes seems easier not to choose 'good', but that usually ends up being short sighted. Sometimes it takes courage or sacrifice, but that is what we are commanded to do. "...And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Tom